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The Douglas Baldwin's "A Practical Guide to Sous Vide Cooking" has charts for sous vide cooking times. Unintuitive to me, cooking times are drastically shorter for spheres and cylinders than slabs. Does anybody have an explanation?

  • At a rough guess, the chart only has one dimension listed, thickness. A sphere of that thickness has a volume, full stop. A cylinder is a bit more variable, but two dimensions must be known, with only a little wiggleroom for length, while a slab of that same thickness could be a much larger piece, simply because length and width are completely unknown. Maybe they assume (for some reason) the absolute size of a slab is larger, or recommend longer times because it can be? – Megha Mar 30 '17 at 8:39
  • @Megha this is an answer, not a comment. I even think it's the correct answer - due to how the words are used in cooking, a slab's thickness has to be visibly smaller than its width. If you have a piece with a square profile, a cook is more likely to approximate it to a cylinder than a slab (meat doesn't have sharp corners) and if you have a piece with a visible difference, the cook is never going to call the larger dimension "thickness". So, a slab is wider than thick. – rumtscho Mar 30 '17 at 14:03
  • Be careful that you are using the correct charts for your purposes. I believe the charts you are referring to are those that illustrate heating time from 41F (5C) to 1F (.5C) below the temperature of the water bath (there is second chart that illustrates the same, but from frozen). This is not enough to pasteurize. So caution about who is consuming the final product is in order. Cooking times are generally longer. That said, as understand it, the charts are based on calculations of heat transfer. To my untrained eye, spheres and cylinders transfer heat more efficiently than slabs. – moscafj Mar 30 '17 at 14:57
  • @moscafj I'm using the correct charts, and beef does not have to be pasteurized to be consumed safely, as bacteria do not travel through muscle tissue very well. The distance from edge to center is smaller for a slab than a sphere, so I don't quite understand why a slab heats up so much slower. – chaqke Mar 30 '17 at 17:38
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    @chaqke Asking about downvotes is rarely helpful; the voter is usually gone, and if someone with constructive advice does see it, they often don't like to reply because it looks like an invitation to argue. If I had to guess, I'd say it's because someone (a bit unreasonably) thought that your understanding or intuition was iffy, but that's just a wild guess - I'm sure there are plenty of reasons I didn't think of. – Cascabel Mar 30 '17 at 22:09
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A picture really helps here:

enter image description here

There's your slab, cylinder, and sphere with the same thickness.

The time to cook does depend on thickness, since that's the distance the heat has to travel from the surface to the interior. But it also depends on the ratio of surface area to volume (and thus shape): the more surface area per volume you have, the more area you have to transfer heat compared to the amount of heat you need to transfer to fully heat the meat.

So unsurprisingly, at constant thickness, a slab takes longer than a cylinder, which takes longer than a sphere.

Of course, the typical thicknesses of the various shapes are different, so it's not all that meaningful to compare things at constant thickness. A slab might be a fish filet, a steak steak, or many smaller pieces of meat packaged together in a bag - nothing all that thick, unless it's a really full bag. A cylinder might be a pork tenderloin or a decent approximation of a chicken breast - still not that thick. A sphere might be a single steak medallion, or maybe an okay approximation of a large pork shoulder - a pretty wide range.

That said, in the end we often think about things in terms of the amount of meat, i.e. the volume. A 2 by 10 by 10 cm slab, a 5 cm diameter 10 cm long cylinder, and a 7.25 cm radius sphere all have about the same volume. According to that table, the slab needs 1.25 hours, the cylinder needs 2.75 hours, and the sphere needs 4 hours. So if you were thinking of similar quantities of meat, perhaps that matches your intuition better.

  • 2cm * 10cm * 10cm = 200cm^3 is 50 minutes, 10cm * π * (5cm diameter/2)^2 ~= 196 cm^3 which is 5 minutes, and π * (7.25cm)^3 * 4/3 ~= 1600cm^3....for ~200 cubic cm, r should be 3.6cm, or a 7.2 diameter sphere, which is between 8 and 13 minutes. – chaqke Apr 27 '17 at 8:18
  • i think the chart skews at the "smaller values" end, so let's solve again for 6cm*10cm*10cm = 600 instead of 200. 6cm*10cm*10cm = 600cm^3 which is 4.75 hours, 600cm^3 = 10cm * 3.14 * r^2 with r = 4.37cm, diameter ~= 9cm ~= 5.25. r^3 * π * 4/3 = 600 has r = 5.2cm, so diameter ~= 10cm, which is 4.75hours. closer, but still a little strange :-D – chaqke Apr 27 '17 at 8:29
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So, I'm expanding my comment into an answer.

I think it's possible that the chart was assuming different volumes for the different shapes, since only one dimension (thickness, which is usually the thinnest dimension) was listed on the chart.

So, for example, given a piece with a centimeter's thickness, the resulting sphere is a little nugget of one centimeter in all directions, with no wiggle-room, since spheres are symmetrical. A cylinder of the same thickness has its diameter defined, since width and thickness are the same in a cylinder, even if its length can be more variable - so a cylinder one centimeter thick, can easily be three centimeters long, and thus starts with about three times the volume of it's spherical "counterpart".

And then there's the slab. With only the thickness given, it can be considerably larger in both length and width. Looking at a one-centimeter thickness, we can start at three centimeters wide to match our previous three long, and three wide to make a flat slab instead of a strip, for nine times the volume of a one-centimeter sphere and three times the volume of a one-by-three centimeter cylinder.

As rumstscho's comment mentions, the difference must be rather visible for the shape to be considered a cylinder rather than a sphere, or actually a strip vs a cube (give or take irregularities and/or rounded edges), so it must have a longer length to qualify. Same for a slab rather than a cylinder - it must be visibly larger in two dimensions, or else it will look more like a strip or chunk (square-ish or spherical).

It is rather intuitive that a larger piece, with more volume and more mass, will take longer to cook, longer for the temperature to equalize form the edges in. Of course, that makes the "intuitive" problem the chart setup, which is comparing pieces of rather different sizes based on thickness alone - it might make a bit of sense for the rate of diffusion to be based on the thinnest dimension, but the results are, as you said, counter-intuitive since I didn't see anything mentioning that assumption. The time should be the same if the other variables like absolute size didn't matter, but clearly they have to be taken into account somehow. It might have made more sense to compare profiles for pieces of the same volume, or make a chart for each shape, or just mention the assumptions being made or something.

For the same volume, the same mass, I would expect a thin flat slab to heat up much faster, and a sphere or cube to heat slower, because of the ratio of surface area to volume. But once we're talking different amounts of mass in each shape, yes, I would expect the same volume of food to cook faster as diced small cubes, as opposed to cut into longer strips or left as fewer, wider planks, simply because the pieces are smaller and there are more cuts, therefore more surface area.

  • yep, i agree that the chart goes by one arbitrary measurement instead of by meat volume, which would make the chart more intuitive, and that these terms implicitly add volume to the meat. you/me/cascabel are in agreement on that, and the people who think spheres have more surface area are barking up the wrong tree with regards to physics (hence the original confused intuition). no ding on their attempted helpfulness though! – chaqke Nov 13 '18 at 21:50
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Physicist here. There's a very simple explanation.

Heat (as in energy) can only transfer through the surface of the food. Spherical objects have the same distance to the center of the sphere from all sides, but in a slab, the distance to the center is much shorter top and bottom than it is from the side. (For a 2" thick slab, it's 1" to the center from the top but might be 4" to the center from the side.) Because of this, all of the energy required to cook the center effectively comes from the top and bottom. Very loosely, you are eliminating about half the surface area through which energy can flow, so it takes about twice as much time to reach the same temperature.

  • still feels unintuitive, because i thought spheres had the worst (largest) ratio of volume to surface area...thinner things like slabs should have more surface area to volume, if we're keeping volume constant. clearly i'm wrong if the chart is right, so i'm guessing it's just that we'd call a smaller volume (smaller piece) a spheres, and only humanly use the word slab for a larger volume piece of meat. – chaqke Nov 13 '18 at 21:42
  • just reviewed the other comments and re-remembered. i'm fairly certain that the answer is that the words "slab" and "cylinder" imply larger quantities of meat. keeping volume consistent, spheres should have the highest volume to surface area ratio, and cook the slowest - it's just that a cylinder of the same VOLUME of meat would have a smaller thickness, so comparing "equal" thicknesses is inherently comparing different quantities of meat (so their cook times should indeed be far apart). V = 4π(r^3)/3 vs π(r^2)h vs LxWxH...but thanks for trying! this is definitely unintuitive :) – chaqke Nov 13 '18 at 21:54

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